The Orthodox “feminist”? I don’t think so….
I was asked by the local outreach organization to teach a “lunch and learn” class on Tu B’Shvat this past Shabbat. Â I heartily agreed because I love what they do and love to help them do it. I love to teach and jump at every chance to do so (there aren’t that many). I have been running a women’s Tu B’Shvat seder at the same location for the past four years, and as a result have ended up learning quite a great deal about the holiday.
However, once I had a chance to stop and think about it, I realized that this would be the first time I was teaching a shiur to a mixed crowd. I teach lots of mixed crowds – religious and not religious – but never men and women together. My rebbetzin – who would never agree to do such a thing – Â gave me a look that read “give me a break”. My husband gave me same look, but even stronger.
I am not shy or in anyway less than completely outspoken in mixed company. I have “addressed” mixed audiences before in the same location… but not as a teacher of a Torah shiur. Not for an hour and a half. I have taken gemara shiurim for women. Â I studied at Drisha. I had a Rabbi (the brilliant Rabbi David Aaron) speak under my chuppah, but was adamant that I wanted a woman – the incredible Rabbanit Chana Henkin – to speak at the wedding…. so no wonder they gave a look that said “give me a break”, right?
I wrote as my title that I am not a feminist. I am a strong sexist, and a huge fan of womankind.
What I do not support, however, is the idea that we are the same as men in any way, that Hashem wants us to have similar roles in any way, and that male opportunities can and should be given to women wherever and whenever possible. (Even when speaking within the boundaries of halacha.) That is my understanding of what feminism is, and so that makes me not a feminist.
Here’s the thing; I think that women are better at just about everything under the sun than men. Maybe not lifting huge weights or playing football. But if we needed to, we would find a wiser way of getting both of those things done. I have seen and heard and read numerous studies on how women use more parts of their brain. I have read shiurim on how the limitations put on women in Orthodoxy are because we are “exempt” and not because we are “prohibited”. Why do more things than you have to in order to connect to G-d? Why not perfect instead what you do need to do?
My experience of egalitarianism in Judaism is the equivalent of the best behaved child in the school fighting for decades for the right to stay after school in detention.
I once had a dream of becoming a Cantor. I had amazing role models, education and experience to pursue such a thing. My choice to sit behind a mechitza is not because I feel a desire to be subjugated. It comes from a true sense of superiority – not the opposite.
Years ago, I sat in a session at the GA – the General Assembly of the UJA. Â In this session they were discussing a new crisis in the Hebrew Union College’s Rabbinical program. According to the panel, as the percentage of enrolled female students neared 50, the enrollment of males just started drastically dropping off. Â The woman on the panel went on to describe studies that had been done in other industries, and cited the same phenomenon in the secular world. Â Men fled the nursing profession when women began entering it in equal numbers. Â The rise in female enrollment in medical school, at least according to the panel member, was having the same effect.
This would seem to be data that agrees with the way a sexist Orthodox Jewish structure was explained to me. Women can be rabbis; they can be great rabbis…. but what does that do to the men? There is something in the male psyche and makeup that doesn’t like competing in anything against women.
And I think the sages understood that much better than contemporary secular society would like to.
I know there are some that believe that this is about evolving and growing beyond such primitive and unfair inclinations, but I don’t buy it. If you believe in G-d, and you believe (he) made man and woman the way he did for a reason, then I believe you need to conclude that the differences are not to be ignored or squashed, but acknowledged, celebrated and worked with.
…. So I believe all of that, and still gave this shiur in front of a bunch of men. Â G-d must have a wonderful sense of humor. Someone in our community had a baby, and while baby and Ima stayed in the hospital, many family members came for the shalom zachor and to lend a hand. From Brooklyn and from Lakewood. With very black hats on their heads. And these family members decided to stay for the ‘lunch and learn’.
Mixed learning in our community, taught by a woman at times, isn’t unusual or controversial. So the issue was with me, and my comfort level. Now, I was dealing with men in my audience who had never (they told me) listened to a shiur by a woman in their lives. Â So apparently, I was making some statement or stand anyway.
I would love to hear from my readers if my next move was cowardly; I asked the proud new father of said baby to get up and read the Gemara section (the first part of Masechet Rosh Hashana, in the Mishna) that is our first mention of Tu B’Shvat. The truth is he is a wonderful Rebbe in the school and he did a much better job at reading and explaining it than I ever could have. Â I am quite sure that there is no halachic distinction at all whatsoever between my teaching the class and my reading that Gemara. But I couldn’t do it.
The rest of the shiur I chose to enjoy. After all, no one made anyone stay, or indicated that it would be rude for them to leave. They could have eaten and then left. They chose to be there. They complimented me afterwards. I take comfort in the fact that I seriously doubt that any of the black hat men have ever heard much of anything about Tu B’Shvat at all whatsoever. Certainly not why the kabbalists made a Tu B’Shvat seder and perceived it to be a tikkun.
I am not embarrassed to teach in front of men, and I don’t apologize for my own level of knowledge, access to learning (yes, the Gemara) or my ability to give that knowledge over.
Through this process I have come to realize that ultimately what bothers me is only that I don’t like being the focus of attention in a room for over an hour that isn’t filled solely with women. Although the focus should of course be on the material, in principle I just don’t want to stand up and be that which everyone looks at for such a long period of time in mixed company.
I don’t think that I will agree to do such a thing again. In this particular case, there was a least some strong element of kiruv, outreach, involved. I know there were men at an early point in the Jewish journey who became more connected to the holiday because of my teaching. This is the one aspect that causes my ambivalence.
I have no doubt that the “black hat” men (as if I can judge them by their head covering…) did NOT learn that a  woman can be learned and teach a coherent shiur on a topic and give over information they didn’t know. I am 100% certain they already knew that.
I don’t think tzniut is about hiding your talents. G-d forbid. Or denying them. But I do think it is about having the confidence to share them in a way that draws attention to the service of Hashem and only the service of Hashem and not attention to ourselves or what we are capable of.
I hope this is the way in which the shiur was received. Â I am confident that Hashem is concerned with my intentions.
I am still left with the feeling that I made a statement, and not one I am sure I wanted to make.
I am, after all, a sexist. Â : Â )
Um. Rachel? Can I be you when I grow up? Or at least a supporting actress?
I have to be me when I grow up, I think…. : )
If you can teach, and are asked to teach, perhaps you should. You have something unique to share, your own perspective. Not because you are a woman, but because you are an individual. It doesn’t have to be making a statement.
Rachel- …I like your conclusion. It’s interesting to hear it from someone who wanted to be a “chazanit.”
I went to Limmud NY last shabbat, and was thrilled to see so many men and women scholars teaching sessions, and that no one in the crowd seemed to distinguish the sessions based on the gender of the presenters. You have to do what feels comfortable for you, but I was grateful to (and proud of) the many alumnae of the Scholar’s Circle who shared their insights, wisdom and knowledge with anyone in klal yisrael who wanted to attend. It was important for so many reasons.
I completely understand your point here, and I have never had a shred of discomfort at being in a mixed class, taught by a man or a woman. I have never felt that a woman teaching a shiur was usurping a man, or threatening male scholars in any way. On the contrary, fitting with my self declared “sexist” attitude, I think men and women teach different Torah, differently, both with merit and import. I am really hoping to meet you at Limmud NY next year, and to go to the same mixed shiurim. This is all probably why my personal discomfort was so confusing to me.
I suppose that means that I am not coming to an ideological stance on whether such a thing is right or wrong, but a personal realization that it doesn’t fit in with my personal sense of tzniut and comfort.
[…] is surprised when a group of haredi men show up at her […]
Thanks for posting….
What you write about men not liking to compete with women may well be true. But it seems so immature — like, “if I can’t be captain then I won’t play”. OTOH, the mature ones, who can stand sharing leadership, generally don’t fulfill religious responsibilities as carefully. The choice between immature men and irresponsible men is not attractive!
I agree that it is frustrating that we have to change what we do because of what feels to us like a real “flaw”… men are being immature – at least I think that is how the lack of desire to compete with me come across to us.
I am making the argument however, that the immaturity, or rather the innate weakness in this area, is hotwired, biological. I am sure that men could easily make the argument that it is immature that we expect them to adapt the way they handle us to cope with PMS or menopause. I mean, why don’t we just take some drugs and get OVER it? right? We do what we can, but Hashem made us in such a way that there are hormones that impact our behavior that they don’t have.
Furthermore, the kabbalistic concept of tzimtzum dictates that in order to repair the world so that Mashiach can come, we all have to find ways of contracting ourselves in order to love and tend to others withing Klal Yisroel. Perhaps this is at the core of our differences with men that seem to limit – or even punish – us.
My reply to this is similar to the reply I hope to leave on your recent (and excellent) blog post: I believe we need to focus as women, especially with our daughters, on all of the many wonderful things we can and should do within the Jewish community. This includes many examples of leadership, teaching, and Jewish scholarship…. but not in a way that is the same as, or competing with, men.
Hi
I was intrigued to hear that men were apparently chased out of nursing. I had assumed that nursing had always been a woman’s profession, especially since the the German and Hebrew words for “nurse” is the same word for “sister” (which I assume has roots in the fact that most nurses were probably also nuns or somehow related to the Church).
Do you have a source for men being chased out of the nursing profession? I’d love to see it.
Abbi,
I did some research after getting your comment. My husband had raised the same question…. it turns out that you are right, and I was WRONG. I am hoping to modify the posting to accurately reflect facts. I had been given that example in the seminar I had attended as described in the post. Perhaps I misremembered. I am looking for a better (accurate) historical example of men leaving. I think the point remains sound, but I also would like to find another career with my facts straight.
Sorry for the error!!
Hmm … It is difficult to think of typical women’s qualities that men would think are immature. Maybe that we cry more easily than they do? Maybe that when we’re pregnant or nursing we are so driven by our bodily needs — like to eat and drink RIGHT NOW! But of course these don’t seem immature to me. They seem entirely reasonable. I wonder if men feel that it’s reasonable not to want to compete with women. How could they?
I guess if it was just shul roles it would be easier to take, although still not easy for me. But the male dominance is so pervasive in Orthodoxy. So I question the claim that it is separate but equal.
Would you be interested in continuing this conversation by e-mail? I have a lot to say — not really appropriate for a comment.
I don’t know, but I would guess that men DO find such things reasonable and natural.
As for the male dominance in Orthodoxy, I know that such attitudes exist. It just isn’t “my Orthodoxy”. I never been in a community that treats women that way, by choice. And alternatives exist.
I once went to a shul where a man interrupted my shemoneh esrei davening to tell me to shush my child. Through a small box that passed for a mechitza, mind you. Not only did I never go back, but I told the man I felt he was wrong and why. So I know it is out there. But the Rebbeim I choose to surround myself with – who range from Israeli, modern to “black hat Lakewood” honor women, their roles, minds, contributions, etc. And I think part of the key is putting yourself in a frum environment that makes you love yiddishkeit more, not less, right?
Happy to continue the conversation off line, but I think there are probably others benefiting from your thoughts.
I discussed this with my husband. He suggested that part of the attraction of shul for men is that it provides a sacred space to be with other men that is otherwise pretty much lacking. So if women start to participate, shul loses part of what made it attractive and men become less interested. Also, shul beats other all-male environments that can be more vulgar precisely because it is a higher activity. He didn’t see my examples as being immaturity, but then again, he didn’t see male exclusivity in shul that way either.
There are countless examples of male dominance in Orthodoxy — men are rabbis and make Piskei Halacha for both sexes. Men make Havdala. Men give a get. Men say Kaddish. Men define what is modest! Men silence women under the banner of Kol Isha. God is overwhelmingly referred to as male. Men are encouraged to learn Gemara, women not so much — but it is the basis for all we do as Jews.
You’re right that it’s important to find an environment that makes you love yiddishkeit more. But that is hard, and complicated. Back when I was still egal I think I loved yiddishkeit more. Now that I attend an Orthodox shul, a lot of the spark is gone. And since my children range in age from 7 to 15, it is not simple to experiment or to just switch shuls.
I am happy to continue commenting, but I have a lot of thoughts. It would get very long for a comment. If you would like to write to me, I would be interested in discussing some of these issues with you.
D’oh, sorry about the misremembering. I was honestly intrigued, I thought maybe you had some new info I wasn’t aware of. In any case, you might find this blog on NYT related to bullying nurses interesting: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/when-the-nurse-is-a-bully/
I think women have overtaken men on college campuses, but I’m having a hard time finding the stats to back that up.
Thanks for the link! Veeeeeery interesting. (Sad, but interesting.)